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Liquids, Part 2

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Comments

Submitted by Anonymous on

" Anonymous said...

I hope all you that think that the liquid threat is all hype and bs will check out TSAs website today and listen to all the reports from the BBC about the trial of the UK bombers and the plot to blow up airplanes bound for North America. This was and is a viable plot and if liquids were allowed without testing every single oversized bottle for every type of explosives imaginable (not feasible) we cannot be sure that a liquid is not an explosive component to a bomb.

Those of you that think the 311 rule should be done away with really need to do some more research because you are very thoroughly rebutted by the evidence presented at the trial of the bombers.

April 8, 2008 12:15 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said..."

Maybe one day you'll end up as top flack at TSA. Until then, try to actually follow TSA rules and regulations.

Submitted by Anonymous on
Ok, so here it is... plain and simple. Any container of ANYTHING that can pour, spread, squeez or spary is considered a liquid. If the container is marked over 3.4oz, REGARDLESS OF MASS OR VOLUME, it can not be brought through the checkpoint.

I can pour tooth powder out of a container. Does that make it a liquid?

Exceptions are made for baby formula, medications, etc.

TSA's own policy states that is is reasonable quantities for baby formula/food. PAY ATTENTION, people have recently had liquids/pastes for medical purposes confiscated by overeager TSOs. What are you going to do about that?

You can buy drinks after you have passed through security because any liquid on the inside is screened and cleared as a non threat.

So you screened 100% of all containers coming into the sterile area? Sorry, but I've seen shrink wrapped pallets (not just boxesd) of liquids in the sterile areas of airports. You lie.

I think I've covered just about everything. And for anyone that want's to argue about the rule, or doesn't understand why you can't bring your favorite hair gel or you energy drink... remember back to Aug. 10, 2006; here's the story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm

McGiver doesn't exist. Stop watching action/adventure fiction. See what it would take to acutally make the explosive the muslims were attempting to make.

Just remember this situation next time a TSO askes you to remove your liquids from your bag. After all, we could resort back to the NO LIQUIDS at all rule again.

-BOS TSO

Tell me BOS(sy) TSO, do you intimidate passengers? Do you scream at them in order to make them obey you? Have you ever used the phrase 'do you want to fly today'? Do you get a thrill whenever you find an over sized container of liquids? Do you ever refer to passengers as 'them/civilians' if you answer yes to any of the above, please get another job where you don't have any power over anyone else.
Submitted by Anonymous on

I'm thinking that some of you still haven't read the article linked to about the UK bombers. They already had the explosives made when they were caught. They weren't going to make it on the plane. Yes it's not really feasible to make TATP or any other type of explosives on the plane, but once made hiding them used to be feasible before the liquids restrictions.

Submitted by Anonymous on

Stop all your whining! You all know the rules, take before you leave home to make sure you are within the guidelines. Or do like I do and buy toiletries when you get where you are going. If you are traveling in the US there are stores almost everywhere that sell travel size toiletries. The only time I had any problems with security is the first time I traveled after the 3-1-1 rule was instituted. It has never, ever taken me longer than 45 minutes to get through security, most times it is 15 min or less. I'd rather be inconvienenced & safe. Traveling is not a right it is a privilege!

Submitted by Anonymous on

Please clarify the policy regarding bottles of ice (that would turn into water) later.

My mother had to dispose of her ice bottles in MSP in Dec, so she didn't take them on a recent trip.

Please clarify as I am taking a trip with a 9 mo. old soon and I would like to take ice with me.

Submitted by Anonymous on
Any container of ANYTHING that can pour, spread, squeez or spary [sic] is considered a liquid.

Hey blog team...

Another reference to some sort of rule of thumb relative to "liquids, gels and aerosols".

Once again, I ask for a link to publicly accessible information that refers to this thumb rule.

It is often used by TSO's on this blog, but I have yet to find it on the TSA web site among the pages and pages and pages of 3-1-1 info on the site.

Is this official TSA policy, or is this an example of TSO's making up their own rules?
Submitted by Kelly on

They say that the bag has to be a 1-quart bag (8" x 7.5"), but the bags that they give at some checkpoints are not zip-top (they are the press-together ones) and they are 8" x 11", I measured. Why are they handing out larger bags at the checkpoints if we are required to have a quart-sized bag? Is there a threat that our liquids will be confiscated if we use one of these "generously provided" bags?

Submitted by Anonymous on

Come on people...why is this so hard to understand. TSA has never said that you could not take you 40oz size of shampoo with you. You just can't carry it onboard...you CAN check it. If you don't want to check bags, that is your problem and likely the fault of the Air Carriers; yes, I have had bags lost and even a rifle once.

For those of you that seems to have bad experiences with the agents as you call them...OPEN YOUR MOUTH. Ask for a supervisor, complain, tell someone. Get names, hold people accountable. Stop being a martyr.

And for Petes sake, they do not confiscate anything. You know full well you were given options and you choose to abandon your property, be it a knife, liquid, gel or aerosol.

And lastly, if you have evidence of TSA employees stealing, then you have an obilgation to say something; even if you do it anonymously. If an investigation reveals what you say, TSA will fire them.

Submitted by Anonymous on

It has just become totally ridiculous that you are not allowed to take in your carry on toothpaste!! Especially for just an overnight trip, this is just becoming ridiculous and overdone.
I had my toothpaste confiscated even though my husband's wasn't taken because he didn't have his in a plastic bag, just in his bag!
How is a woman to travel without toothpaste, deodorant and cosmetics which are all liquid, gel or lotion form??? I am sure all of us women are planning to blow up a plane with our cosmetics!
In order to comply, you have to check in a bag for an overnight trip because they won't let you through with essential things! Most airlines are now charging for an extra bag and I'm sure it won't be long until they charge for a bag period. So we pay more to take the things we need that are everyday products that we all use and need....it has just become ridiculous!!

Submitted by Anonymous on

The last poster who stated: It has just become ridiculous has been hiding under a rock. The 311 rules have been going on since August 6 2006 and yes toothpastes and cosmetics are liquids, lotions, gels, or aerosols. I'd suggest that everyone go to the tsa.gov website and read the report about the UK bombers and then the understanding of why the rule exists and is enforced will be obvious.

It's been explained over and over but you are allowed to have a quart sized ziptop bag full of small liquids 3.4 oz and smaller. We aren't perfect at finding things in bags as should be obvious but the rules are the same for everyone at all TSA operated checkpoints. Today I heard from a passenger that we are the only ones that enforce the rule while the large airports don't. Of course she said this like she knew and yet still didn't follow the rule prior to coming through the checkpoint here.

Submitted by Anonymous on

I had the privledge of watching the astute employees of TSA take a 6 oz. jar of jelly, vacuum sealed, from a couple at RIC on April 20. Seems they were trying to have a little something to eat since the 10 pretzels the airlines offer would not hold them over on their 4.5 hour flight.

Gee, when will the insanity end with TSA? Obviously our elected officials will not do anything about this out of control agency. Perhaps it is time to throw the rascals out and get someone with some common sense. I was always taught to never give up your rights in the name of security.

Submitted by Anonymous on
had the privledge of watching the astute employees of TSA take a 6 oz. jar of jelly, vacuum sealed, from a couple at RIC on April 20. Seems they were trying to have a little something to eat since the 10 pretzels the airlines offer would not hold them over on their 4.5 hour flight.

Ah yes, the TSA breakroom now has some pretty good jelly in the fridge. But what we don't see in this case and others like it is that we now have security at any cost. That couple is out the cost of the jelly and in a little way they might feel that their government has, in a small way, let them down. Sad.

Has Homeland Security no shame?
Submitted by Anonymous on

What part of liquid, lotion, gel, and aerosol do you folks not understand? Jelly is most definitely a gel and so fits into that category. The rules apply to everyone including those that are taking huckleberry jam home as a souvenir or peanut butter and jelly to make a sandwich while traveling. We aren't being out of control to follow the rules. It's not a common sense issue at all. It's about us doing our jobs of not allowing certain items through the checkpoint and some of you folks getting angry about that. If you put the items in your checked bags then the issue would just go away.

Submitted by Anonymous on

Ah yes, the TSA breakroom now has some pretty good jelly in the fridge. But what we don't see in this case and others like it is that we now have security at any cost. That couple is out the cost of the jelly and in a little way they might feel that their government has, in a small way, let them down. Sad.
Government employees are forbidden to take anything passengers surrender and use it. Ethics rules and theft of now government trash apply. Peolle have been fired over taking jelly out of the trash and taking it home.

Submitted by Anonymous on
Government employees are forbidden to take anything passengers surrender and use it. Ethics rules and theft of now government trash apply. Peolle have been fired over taking jelly out of the trash and taking it home.

Tell you what, why don't you pop on over to Ebay and see what is for sale? Why aren't those items destroyed instead of being peddled?
Submitted by Anonymous on

My wife was recently returning from Europe with two bottles of very good wine. Since she could no longer carry wine in her "carry on" luggage, she wrapped them very carefully and put them in her checked bag, taking care that they were well separated from each other.
When the TSA decided to search her checked bags... they repacked very carelessly, and "expanded" the bag to make it easier for them to zip shut. The result was that the contents of the bag were loose and able to move around, and both bottles broke! Thanks a lot, TSA!
The whole TSA approach makes no sense. First you outlaw sharp objects, then you x-ray shoes, then outlaw liquids... it seems like our security plan is, "See what the terrorists have used, and make sure NOBODY can take those things on the plane." (I suppose we should be thankful that no one has hijacked a plane by strangling a flight attendant with pantyhose! We would have to watch all the women take off their pantyhose at the security checkpoint!)
Interesting... Israeli security is the most effective in the world, and they don't focus on things like these... They look for those who fit "suspect" groups and target suspicious behavior. It seems to work.
We think profiling is unfair. Is it more "fair" to inconvenience EVERYONE with our silly and inconsistent rules?

Submitted by Anonymous on

Repacking bags is a difficult job. We don't want items to break and yet there are so many things inside that as soon as you unzip the bag items fall all over the floor. Our job is to screen the bag and then repack as neatly as possible with or without the passenger present. With them present they still cannot touch the bag while or after it's being screened so having them there is not helpful at all. I wonder why folks think they need to take so many things with them when they travel?

Submitted by Anonymous on

I am a TSO Screener at the Richmond, VA airport (RIC). I was watching abc news in the break room when I saw TSA and Kip Hawley. They were speaking of this website and I decided to check it out. I have been reading some of the comments and I wanted to respond to a few. First off I must say that I know as a screener that it is hard working for TSA. We have a lot to deal with and sometimes...well most of the time it seems as if passengers don't appreciate the work that we do. I wonder if any of you passengers ever thought about maybe this is a part of the reason why you all are having such bad experiences. Yes I will admit there may appear to be some loopholes, and TSA is constantly working on fixing them!! We are always finding new ways to do things. Remember that our job is to keep you safe. Alot of the times I find that travelers become frustrated because they don't understand why we do the things that we do such as placing the liquids in the baggies. To not disclose any sensitive information I will just say that TSA does EVERYTHING for a reason. When there were shoe bombs being made, TSA said ok...now everyone must remove their shoes. When terrorists attempt to use liquid bombs to conceal their identity, TSA said ok...now everyone must use small size liquids that they want to carry on and place them in a baggie so we can contain how much travelers take on the plane. To be honest...terrorist are ALWAYS thinking of new things to get past security and bring harm to america. To prove it to you, terrorist overseas are using bras to conceal explosive devices and guess what...TSA is already working on procedures and steps to prevent that from happening here in this country. Last, but not least, my advice to passengers to help you all with the frustration is to familiarize yourself with the rules and regulations. When you are at the airports...READ THE SIGNS AND WATCH the VIDEOS!! I see passengers all the time walk right past the liquid signs and the baggies we offer and then get upset with us when they get to the other side and their things are confiscated! People ask me all the time "Do we have to remove our shoes?" and there is a sign right in front of their face. Don't expect screeners to tell you everything...do the research so you know. In fact you can go on TSA.gov and everything is there for you. So next time you see a screener who appears to be irrate just think of all of the things I have highlighted in this blog and try to help us out by familiarizing yourself with the rules. It helps everything go alot smoother. :)

TSO Brianne Jones
RIC Airport

Submitted by Ray on

The threats are always changing, that is something we can't help. I think it is hardest on people who don't fly frequently, it feels like every time they fly, something is totally different. Now the TSA website is helpful and everyone who can should read up before they fly, but we all know not everyone uses the internet. It would just be better if people ob both sides remember that we have to deal with this, it is a necessary evil. The easier we make it on each other the better and smoother it will go for all.

Submitted by Anonymous on

I few months a ago I was flying out of Oakland, Ca on my way home to Seattle. At the time my daughter (who was 9 months old) was still drinking formula from bottles. The lady who I encountered at the TSA checking station made me dump out every bottle that I had! I couldn't believe this. Because it couldn't fit into a small ziplock baggie it had to go. Obviously I became livid. Our family flies regularly and I have never once had to dump out our bottles! I realize that I could brought powder formula sticks, but these are not available everywhere and in every forumla brand.

Airports do not sell formula, they do not have "pumping" stations for breastfeeding moms, and family restrooms are virtually non-existant. Are parents being treated unfairly becuase they travel with young children?

Submitted by RaySkizzy on

That is one of my biggest worries. On Tuesday, I am flying out with my 1 1/2 year old son. Aside from all the worrying about being in another country with my son, I have been on the TSA website searching to make sure I can bring his bag and his milk on the plane. The prvious post and what I have heard from other people is that they will not let me bring his milk on board. He can probably go 3 hours without drinking molk, but we are connecting and taking anohter flight. We will be flying for about 7 hours, without his milk that could be painful for me and other passengers. Now the TSA website says that we can bring this on board, even if it is more than 3 oz. I think it all depends on who we get at the checkpoints but I kinda feel like printing out the TSA rules for baby needs and bringing it with me. Wish me luck!

Submitted by Anonymous on
I am a TSO Screener at the Richmond, VA airport (RIC). I was watching abc news in the break room when I saw TSA and Kip Hawley.

Okay good for you. Did you get any follow-up briefings or was ABC your only source for job related information?

They were speaking of this website and I decided to check it out. I have been reading some of the comments and I wanted to respond to a few. First off I must say that I know as a screener that it is hard working for TSA.

We all have options and unless you have a 'you can't quit hiring claus' in your employment contract, you are free to leave if you find the job too onerous.

We have a lot to deal with and sometimes...well most of the time it seems as if passengers don't appreciate the work that we do.

Security theater is still security theater. It works with the uninformed and sheeple.

I wonder if any of you passengers ever thought about maybe this is a part of the reason why you all are having such bad experiences.

I went through basic training and am very familiar with intimidation tactics/methods. I can't begin to count the number of times I've heared the screaming/bellowing/roaring of TSO's treating the passengers like criminals/basic trainees. We neither like the process nor the people involved in doing the processing.

Yes I will admit there may appear to be some loopholes, and TSA is constantly working on fixing them!!

Been over to TSA's own website lately? So what is it? 3oz, 3.4oz or 100ml? Your own documentation is inconsistant. Solids are being yanked because they sell toothpaste, deodorant, etc by WEIGHT not VOLUME. Travlers keep hammering you on this and NOTHING changes. You wonder why you get grief over this. Take a look at the posters who recently posted. A mother being told to dump all of the formula she brought with. What's with that? You must not have children or have forgotten what it is like when the children are hungry.

We are always finding new ways to do things.

Try doing some of the things you've been tasked to do PROPERLY instead of moving the line.

Remember that our job is to keep you safe.

No, your job is to keep weapons off of the plane. No more - no less. I don't need a nanny.

Alot of the times I find that travelers become frustrated because they don't understand why we do the things that we do such as placing the liquids in the baggies. To not disclose any sensitive information I will just say that TSA does EVERYTHING for a reason.

So tell me why one of your TSA thugs went (Read) through my papers during a screening process. Tell me when I give TSA secured luggage that I've gotten the luggage back unsecured. Tell me who is responsible for any losses I have when that same luggage has losses. Tell me why a TSA screener wanted to remove a translucent piece of medical tape covering 20+ staples and a fresh incision? Tell me why I'm separated from my belongings (out of eye sight) during the screening process and that any thefts during the screening process are my responisibility. Tell me why all electronics (cables, adapters, wall warts, disks, etc) were required to be removed at O'hare, placed into a bin (filling the bin top to bottom-front to back) after O'hare failed another one of your tests. Tell me why one of your coworkers defaced one of my coworker's belongings because you coworker didn't like the way my coworker packed his tool chest. Tell me why we should give you even common decency when you scream at us (you might get grudging cooperation but you won't get respect).

We don't trust TSA to do the right thing. We don't trust TSA to even follow their own SOP.
Submitted by Anonymous on
In fact you can go on TSA.gov and everything is there for you.

I see nothing there about retaliatory screenings. I see nothing there that addresses the difference between a weight measure of 4 oz or a volume measure of 4 oz. Your on line documentation is pretty much half backed and inconsistant.

So next time you see a screener who appears to be irrate just think of all of the things I have highlighted in this blog and try to help us out by familiarizing yourself with the rules.

Poor baby having a bad day, but when a TSA baby has a bad day the traveling public really suffers. You have the ability to confiscate anything you deem a security risk. How do you think that makes us feel. Some of us travel as part of our jobs and we never quite know what you'll be grabbing this week. It's okay for a TSO to be grumpy but perish the thought that a flier might be grumpy and anything but pleasant.

It helps everything go alot smoother. :)

TSO Brianne Jones
RIC Airport

Smoother for who? We're supposed to just bend over and take it? We are still Americans and the Constitution is still a legal document and the idea of security at any cost is repugnant to many of us.
Submitted by Aimee on

I agree that travelers should familiarize themselves with the current regulations before they fly (whether they are frequent flyer or not), but what good does this do when the regulations are inconsistent (3oz, 3.4 oz, 100 ml) and screeners apparently can make the rules up as they go along? I apparently can't use my reusable bottles because they don't have labels stating their weight, I may or may not be able to bring medications and medical aids at the discretion of the screener, and we may or may not be able to bring food onto the flight. All I ask for is consistency, then stick to it.

Submitted by Ellen on

I would like to request that either a larger plastic bag be made permissible for carry-on liquids or that women be permitted to use a second bag for liquid makeup items. I take many two-day trips for business for which I carry on my luggage. My male colleagues have no trouble with the size bag provided, but all my femaile colleagues agree with me that this bag is not large enough for toiletries plus liquid makeup (mascara, foundation, concealer, etc.), even if all the containers indivually meet the permissible size limitations. Consequently, in practice, the size bag used results in gender discrimination. In today's society makeup is no more optional for women in business settings than toiletries like deodorant are for both genders. A policy change to reflet this reality would be greatly appreciated.

Submitted by Zb on

Can someone please clarify where TSA states a 3 oz. containers must be LABELED as such? Recently I purchased 2.5 oz. CLEAR containers and filled them (some 1/2 full) with various toiletries (face lotion, shampoo & perfume). They were singled out by the screener and were not allowed as carry on; eventually, we agreed to throw them away. When I asked the screener about this, she said "I get large decorative perfume bottles all the time, I wouldn't know how many ounces they are unless they were labeled."

I'm not sure here, but couldn't any passenger use a label maker and label ANYTHING. I'd think there is a responsibility of TSA to enable or hire screeners to use COMMON SENSE to allow liquid amounts, obviously under 3 oz, properly packaged (3-1-1) as carry on. At a minimum, make it known/ obvious on the 3-1-1 guidelines.

I want to follow the rules; to NOT hold up a long secuirty line. I just need to know, clearly, what guidelines the screeners follow. I did my research BEFORE going through security and it did not enhance or ease my experience with TSA screeners.

Submitted by Aimee on

After the problems with labeled versus unlabeled bottles, I think I may purchase some little labeled bottles, use their contents, and refill with whatever I please. No one is checking the contents, just how much fits in them according to a manufacturer's label. So much for reduce, reuse, and recycle.

Submitted by Anonymous on

ATTENTION ALL H20 DISBELIEVERS! in case some of you guys didnt realize water is the main component of a liquid. so please do not waste your breath telling the tsa that a water bottle containing water is not a liquid or that your bottle of pepsi or gatorade is not a liquid. seriously we all graduated elementary school and we can all agree that water/pepsi/gatorade/coke/rum/whiskey/whatever else you can imagine going down your throat is a liquid. i would appreciate this from the rest of the passengers in line in order to expedite my wait in line

Submitted by Anonymous on
. I wonder why folks think they need to take so many things with them when they travel?

April 26, 2008 5:29 PM

What business of yours is it? I pack for a trip things I feel I will need. Your job is to keep weapons off the airplane. Try doing just that and no more!

Can we say mission creep?
Submitted by Anonymous on
I wonder why folks think they need to take so many things with them when they travel?

April 26, 2008 5:29 PM

What business of yours is it? I pack for a trip things I feel I will need. Your job is to keep weapons off the airplane. Try doing just that and no more!

Can we say mission creep?

I'm not being nosy by opening up your bags I'm doing my job. If you want all of your things to make it there with you it makes sense to pack so nothing falls out when a screener opens your baggage, or your zipper doesn't break due to straining to hold so many things inside. Clue: if you have to sit on it to close it, it's over full and the airlines will not be responsible for any damage or lost items.
Submitted by Anonymous on

Anonymous said...
I wonder why folks think they need to take so many things with them when they travel?

April 26, 2008 5:29 PM

What business of yours is it? I pack for a trip things I feel I will need. Your job is to keep weapons off the airplane. Try doing just that and no more!

Can we say mission creep?

I'm not being nosy by opening up your bags I'm doing my job. If you want all of your things to make it there with you it makes sense to pack so nothing falls out when a screener opens your baggage, or your zipper doesn't break due to straining to hold so many things inside. Clue: if you have to sit on it to close it, it's over full and the airlines will not be responsible for any damage or lost items.

May 2, 2008 8:32 PM

I never questioned why you look at my stuff. Your statement, "I wonder why folks think they need to take so many things with them when they travel? is what I responded to. Again, what I pack or how much I pack is not a screeners concern as long as all items are permitted.

Don't even start to think your qualified to tell me what I might need on a trip. Your GED does not qualify you for that.

Screen whatever I bring to the checkpoint and if needed confiscate my unlabled 3oz bottle of hand lotion or my medicines that do not have a presciption, ala TSO New York, or whatever other rules you've made up for that day.

I'll worry about what to pack!

Be seeing you at the checkpoint. Have your badge number and a comment card handy, we'll be needing it!

Submitted by Anonymous on
ATTENTION ALL H20 DISBELIEVERS! in case some of you guys didnt realize water is the main component of a liquid.

Hmmm, I can name several things that are liquid at room temperature that have no water in them at all:

metallic mercury
nitric acid
acetic acid
sulfuric acid
etc.

Water does not define liquids. Did you ever have a science class that you passed in school? Making that comment was embarrassing.
Submitted by Anonymous on
I'm not being nosy by opening up your bags I'm doing my job.

So shut up and do your job.

If you want all of your things to make it there with you it makes sense to pack so nothing falls out when a screener opens your baggage, or your zipper doesn't break due to straining to hold so many things inside.

Ah, so now I get to meet the TSA employee who defaced my coworker's luggage because he didn't like how the luggage was packed. FYI Pelican tool chests are expensive and for you or another just like you to write STUPID on the side of his tool case in large letters, cost the US tax payers over $200 to replace that piece of luggage.

Clue: if you have to sit on it to close it, it's over full and the airlines will not be responsible for any damage or lost items.

Hmmm, I had a carefully packed tool chest and witnesses a 300+lb TSA type struggling to get my tool chest closed by sitting on it. I told him that wasn't necessary and instructed him on how to properly repack the tool chest. Once everything was properly packed the lid closed with no problems. Also, why should the airlines be held liable when TSA thugs can't/won't repack the luggage the way they found it? It seems that again, TSA demonstrated a callous disregard for the property of traveling Americans.
Submitted by Anonymous on

so shut up and do your job ? wow. i wonder if someone can come up to you and say that. or call you names. what if...you couldnt defend yourself because you had to take that abuse. then imagine if now your boss says turn around and smile to the people and treat them with kindness knowin they are calling you names and tellin you to shut up and do your job.

whoever wrote STUPID on it definitely was out of line but lets not categorize EVERYONE just because he/she did that. thats like me saying because i ran into an ignorant passenger that now all passengers are ignorant

Submitted by Miller on
so shut up and do your job ? wow. i wonder if someone can come up to you and say that.

I do field service work and am front and center whenever I go to a customer site. I've been subjected to and have witnessed outrages perpetrated by TSA types on the flying public. You don't like your job you always have the option of quitting. So either shut up and do your job or find something that better suits your personality.

or call you names.

Hmmm, name calling results in me gathering up my belongings and leaving the customer site. You, on the other hand, select the flying public to retaliatory screening. My leaving the customer site means that they're down even longer. Your retaliatory screening violates several SOPs, but since you answer to no one then you're off the hook.

what if...you couldnt defend yourself because you had to take that abuse. then imagine if now your boss says turn around and smile to the people and treat them with kindness knowin they are calling you names and tellin you to shut up and do your job.

Bark at me like a DI and you get silent contempt. Be pleasant (and that doesn't mean rolling over) and I reciprocate. Not a hard concept. TSA guardians pretty much set the tone for the entire screening process.

whoever wrote STUPID on it definitely was out of line but lets not categorize EVERYONE just because he/she did that. thats like me saying because i ran into an ignorant passenger that now all passengers are ignorant.

Out of line? That action is borderline criminal vandalism. Would you like it if someone wrote STUPID on the side of your car in protest of the way you parked your car? My coworker had to go to a customer site with a defaced tool chest. Your coworker set the tone for future interactions by defacing my coworker's tool chest. When I get treated pleasantly I respond pleasantly. Schiphol security was quite pleasant. I can't say the same of many airports I've flown through in the US.
Submitted by Anonymous on

Being told to shut up and do my job is offensive. I do my job and get compliments on my own politeness. We humans tend to remember the bad or out of the ordinary experiences with each other a lot more than the normal or pleasant. In other words the few bad apples will stick in our brains and all the good or non-eventful experiences won't. I remember every passenger that has caused a disruption in the checkpoint, or brought an artfully concealed item. Passengers remember every TSO that in their opinion has done them wrong.

This blog is the place where complaining as well as finding some acceptable answers happens, but since I'm polite to you folks I'd appreciate politeness in return. The annominity of internet is no excuse for rudeness.

Submitted by Miller on
Being told to shut up and do my job is offensive.

So is:
Being told to lose weight because my beltless pants were falling down.
So is a TSA type attempting to remove my surgical dressing (translucent tape) that you could see the staples through.
So is repeatedly using TSA approved locks only to find them cut off by TSA types (over $100 worth).
So is getting my tool chest back unsecured after I gave it to TSA secured.
So is the DI/SWAT team wannabes at checkpoints, screaming at passengers.
So are arbitrary/made up on the spot rules by vendictive TSOs.
So is the threat of "do you want to fly today?" by out of control TSOs.
So is being told to keep your boarding pass out while you're attempting to remove your shoes, metal, laptop, etc.
So is the near total lack of professionalism on the part of TSOs at some airports (sloppy uniforms, unkempt grooming, horseplay). So is the lack of accountability on the part of TSA towards passengers and their belongings.

So stop your whining and do your job.
Submitted by Anonymous on

Hey Miller if all of this has really happened to you, you have either really bad luck or you walk around with a chip on your shoulder.

Chuck

Submitted by Miller on
Hey Miller if all of this has really happened to you, you have either really bad luck or you walk around with a chip on your shoulder.

Try flying 2 or more times a week for seven years. Then get back to me with your own horror stories Chuck.
Submitted by Anonymous on

Miller said...
so shut up and do your job ? wow. i wonder if someone can come up to you and say that.

I do field service work and am front and center whenever I go to a customer site. I've been subjected to and have witnessed outrages perpetrated by TSA types on the flying public. You don't like your job you always have the option of quitting. So either shut up and do your job or find something that better suits your personality.

*WITNESSED ?? I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT WITNESSING SOMEONE ELSE DO SOMETHING. HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF SOMEONE CAME AT YOU ?? CAME AT YOU ?? CAME AT YOU CALLING YOU NAMES. PLEASE STOP DIVERTING TO SOMETHING ELSE AND ANSWER THE QUESTION... (THE CAPS ARENT ATTITUDE, JUST A WAY FOR YOU TO KNOW I REPLIED)

or call you names.

Hmmm, name calling results in me gathering up my belongings and leaving the customer site. You, on the other hand, select the flying public to retaliatory screening. My leaving the customer site means that they're down even longer. Your retaliatory screening violates several SOPs, but since you answer to no one then you're off the hook.

FIRST OFF, IF A PASSENGER IS OUT OF HAND, WE DONT SELECT THEM. WE SIMPLY CALL THE AIRPORT POLICE OVER TO SEE IF YOU ARE BIG AND BAD ENOUGH TO SAY WHAT YOU SAID TO US, TO THEM. AND THATS WHEN THE PASSENGER CALMS DOWN. PITY HOW YOU PICK ON THE UNARMED.

what if...you couldnt defend yourself because you had to take that abuse. then imagine if now your boss says turn around and smile to the people and treat them with kindness knowin they are calling you names and tellin you to shut up and do your job.

Bark at me like a DI and you get silent contempt. Be pleasant (and that doesn't mean rolling over) and I reciprocate. Not a hard concept. TSA guardians pretty much set the tone for the entire screening process.

TSA GUARDIANS ??? OK IF YOU PLAN TO HAVE AN INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION LETS NOT MAKE UP TERMS BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW WHO/WHAT A TSA GUARDIAN IS. 2NDLY THE ONLY REASON TSA "MIGHT" YELL IS TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT OF WHAT TO DO...MAINLY DIRECTED TOWARDS FIRST TIME FLYERS. IF SOMEONE PERSONALLY YELLED AT YOU THEN I APOLOGIZE ON THEIR BEHALF BUT I MAY RAISE MY VOICE WHEN ANNOUNCING BECAUSE IT IS INDEED COMMOTION ON THE CHECKPOINT AND WHEN I TRY TO USE THE SOFT TONE AND TELL PASSENGERS TO KEEP THEIR BOARDING PASSES IN THEIR HANDS THE NEXT 3 SEEM TO HAVE LEFT IT IN THEIR BAG WHICH SLOWS THE LINE UP. SO...I MAKE MY LOUD ANNOUNCEMENT. FOR ME..ITS NOTHING PERSONAL. JUST GIVING ADVISEMENTS.

whoever wrote STUPID on it definitely was out of line but lets not categorize EVERYONE just because he/she did that. thats like me saying because i ran into an ignorant passenger that now all passengers are ignorant.

Out of line? That action is borderline criminal vandalism. Would you like it if someone wrote STUPID on the side of your car in protest of the way you parked your car? My coworker had to go to a customer site with a defaced tool chest. Your coworker set the tone for future interactions by defacing my coworker's tool chest. When I get treated pleasantly I respond pleasantly. Schiphol security was quite pleasant. I can't say the same of many airports I've flown through in the US.

I DONT SEE HOW YOU USE ME AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW I WOULD FEEL IF SOMEONE DID THAT TO ME WHEN CLEARLY I AGREED THAT THE TSA SCREENER SHOULDNT HAVE DONE THAT. ARE YOU JUST HASSLING ME JUST FOR THE SAKE OF HASSLING ? BECAUSE EVEN ME AGREEING WITH YOU RESULTED IN YOU BECOMING PERSONAL.
May 4, 2008 4:17 PM

Submitted by Anonymous on

Miller said...
Being told to shut up and do my job is offensive.

So is:
Being told to lose weight because my beltless pants were falling down.
So is a TSA type attempting to remove my surgical dressing (translucent tape) that you could see the staples through.
So is repeatedly using TSA approved locks only to find them cut off by TSA types (over $100 worth).
So is getting my tool chest back unsecured after I gave it to TSA secured.
So is the DI/SWAT team wannabes at checkpoints, screaming at passengers.
So are arbitrary/made up on the spot rules by vendictive TSOs.
So is the threat of "do you want to fly today?" by out of control TSOs.
So is being told to keep your boarding pass out while you're attempting to remove your shoes, metal, laptop, etc.
So is the near total lack of professionalism on the part of TSOs at some airports (sloppy uniforms, unkempt grooming, horseplay). So is the lack of accountability on the part of TSA towards passengers and their belongings.

So stop your whining and do your job.

May 5, 2008 7:32 PM

HOW I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE REACTION ON YOUR FACE WHEN YOU HEAR YOUR NAME AND "THIS IS THE LAST CALL TO BOARD YOUR FLIGHT" IS BEING SAID OVER THE INTERCOM. AND HAVE A PASSENGER SAY "OOOPS I LEFT IT IN MY BAG. WHICH MAKES THE XRAY OPERATOR STOP THE BELT TO GO GET IT AND THEN GIVE IT BACK TO THE PASSENGER ONLY TO HAVE THEM DIG THROUGH IT ( WHEN THE TSO WHO CHECKED THE TICKET WAS LITERALLY 10 FEET AWAY) AND THUS... WHEN YOU FINALLY REACH YOUR GATE TO SEE THAT DOOR CLOSED. *GASP* OH YES INDEED THAT DOOR ISNT GONNA OPEN BACK UP. WHY ? BECAUSE THAT'S THE PLANE BACKING OUT READY FOR DEPARTURE. AND YOU THINK BACK...WHAT IF THAT PASSENGER KEPT THAT BOARDING PASS IN HIS POCKET OR....SOMEWHERE NEAR HIM SO HE CAN SHOW IT RATHER THAN RAM IT TO THE DEEPEST PART OF THEIR BAG. OH... AND THATS AN EXTRA 125 MINIMUM TO RE BOOK YOUR FLIGHT (YOUR AIRLINE WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS) AND YOU MIGHT JUST GET STAND BY WHICH MEANS YOU MAY NOT EVEN MAKE THE NEXT FLIGHT. AND YOUR VERY SAME AIRLINE COMPUTER WOULD SELECT YOU FOR ADDITIONAL SCREENING.

Submitted by Anonymous on

i understand what you mean about professionalism. you are very right. but if you have flown for 7 years why are you complaining about being told to keep your boarding pass in your hands ??? seems like you are that passenger who manages to do everything wrong when in the front of the line.

Submitted by Miller on
i understand what you mean about professionalism. you are very right. but if you have flown for 7 years why are you complaining about being told to keep your boarding pass in your hands ??? seems like you are that passenger who manages to do everything wrong when in the front of the line.

Being told to have your boarding pass out while you're dissassemble in a TSA inanity. That's what I was complaining about on that issue. I pocket the pass until going through the metal detector.
Submitted by Anonymous on

Miller said...
i understand what you mean about professionalism. you are very right. but if you have flown for 7 years why are you complaining about being told to keep your boarding pass in your hands ??? seems like you are that passenger who manages to do everything wrong when in the front of the line.

Being told to have your boarding pass out while you're dissassemble in a TSA inanity. That's what I was complaining about on that issue. I pocket the pass until going through the metal detector.

May 6, 2008 11:17 PM

it obviously worked because you maintain possession of your boarding pass. like i said the yelling(atleast on my checkpoint) isnt because we have an attitude, but just to make a big announcement so that everyone can hear instead of hearing "oh you didnt tell me" and about your tsa experiences... i so happen to work at dca aka ronald reagan airport.. think we are bad screeners ? unprofessional screeners ???

you can go here and read, for yourself, what people think when they fly through our airport.

http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2008/01/got-feedback-reagan-national-airport.html

Submitted by Jim Huggins on

Anonymous writes:

i understand what you mean about professionalism. you are very right. but if you have flown for 7 years why are you complaining about being told to keep your boarding pass in your hands ??? seems like you are that passenger who manages to do everything wrong when in the front of the line.

Because while I'm holding my boarding pass in my hand, I also have to take off my shoes, take my laptop out of its case, take my quart-sized bag with liquids out of my carry-on, get all of those items into bins to go through the x-ray machine (along with my carry-ons, of course), and then push them onto the conveyor belt at the appropriate moment. Since I only have two hands, I do occasionally have to put down my boarding pass in order to execute those actions.

Which means that if an overzealous TSO happens to look at me at the exact moment when I've put down my boarding pass in order to untie my shoes, I could get yelled at ... even though I know the rules, and am doing my best to comply.

Disclaimer: I've never had this happen to me, personally ... but I know others here have.

Submitted by Miller on
it obviously worked because you maintain possession of your boarding pass. like i said the yelling(atleast on my checkpoint) isnt because we have an attitude, but just to make a big announcement so that everyone can hear instead of hearing "oh you didnt tell me" and about your tsa experiences... i so happen to work at dca aka ronald reagan airport.. think we are bad screeners ? unprofessional screeners ???

Number of times in 7 years that I've missed a plane due to arriving at the airport late is less than 5 times. Three of those were due to heavy ice on the roads. None due to having to fish around for my boarding pass. I recently flew through Schiphol and what amazed me was how quiet that airport was even during a busy time of the day. I was amazed that they didn't have to yell, scream, bellow, rage, intimidate, etc. just to get passenger compliance. Very professional.

As to Reagan Intl, you guys are under a microscope what with many government employees flying into and out of that airport. Got to be on your best behavior then so a Congressional staffer won't complain to their boss. Try flying out of O'hare, Newark, Detroit, Atlanta, Memphis, Kansas City, Orlando, Columbia (SC), etc. to witness just how poorly some airport screeners perform their job.

Someone high up on TSA's food change recently (within the last 2-3 months) made some changes to the way TSO's deal with the traveling public at MPLS. When whoever mandated those changes first put them into place going through the gate screening was eerie - dead silence. A couple weeks later and the people were actually cheerful. Now the horseplay is returning along with the attitude of us (TSA) against them (flying public). It's not too bad right now, but I suspect that if something isn't done soon that it will return to being an unpleasant experience.

Do you or any of your coworkers ever refer to passengers a civilians? If you do then you've set the tone of screening as confrontational (us against them). The traveling public picks up on attitudes like that one and they immediately go on the defense. My recent experiences at Schiphol tell me that security screening doesn't have to be confrontational to be effective.

You have the option of calling a LEO over to shut down an irate screenee. What do we, the traveling public have as an option to shut down an abusive TSO? Complain? Good luck with that one since you protect your own against the public. That's been demonstrated in the news and on this blog. TSA answers to no one and that lack of accountability on the part of TSA to says much about their relationship with travelers.
Submitted by Anonymous on

How old are we? All of you need to grow up and follow the rules. Even little kids have this stuff down perfectly. Quit complaining.

Submitted by Anonymous on

TSA GUARDIANS ??? OK IF YOU PLAN TO HAVE AN INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION LETS NOT MAKE UP TERMS BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW WHO/WHAT A TSA GUARDIAN IS.

Think of Cerberus, the two headed dog that guards the gates of hell.

Submitted by Anonymous on

Number of times in 7 years that I've missed a plane due to arriving at the airport late is less than 5 times. Three of those were due to heavy ice on the roads. None due to having to fish around for my boarding pass. I recently flew through Schiphol and what amazed me was how quiet that airport was even during a busy time of the day. I was amazed that they didn't have to yell, scream, bellow, rage, intimidate, etc. just to get passenger compliance. Very professional.

IF YOU WERE LATE BUT MANAGED TO GET THROUGH EVERYTHING IN A MATTER OF MINUTES JUST ENOUGH FOR YOU TO QUICKLY GET THROUGH THE DOOR BEFORE IT CLOSES THEN IMAGINE WHEN YOU GET TO TSA AND SOMEONE IN FRONT OF YOU FORGETS THEIR BOARDING PASS... THATS WHY WE MAKE THE LOUD ANNOUNCEMENT BUT IM GLAD YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE IM COMING FROM. SMALLED AIRPORTS INDEED HAVE QUIETER CHECKPOINTS. WITH THE NOISE OF X RAY RUNNING AND TSA/PASSENGERS ENGAGING IN CONVERSATIONS WHERE WE ARE INFORMING PASSENGERS ABOUT THE RULES/MACHINES THEN ITS BOUND TO BE SOME CHATTER.

As to Reagan Intl, you guys are under a microscope what with many government employees flying into and out of that airport. Got to be on your best behavior then so a Congressional staffer won't complain to their boss. Try flying out of O'hare, Newark, Detroit, Atlanta, Memphis, Kansas City, Orlando, Columbia (SC), etc. to witness just how poorly some airport screeners perform their job.

YES WE DO HAVE PLENTY OF IMPORTANT PEOPLE COME THROUGH BUT ITS NOT LIKE WE RECOGNIZE EVERYONE. SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN/WOMEN BLEND IN LIKE REGULAR BUSINESS PASSENGERS. ITS ALL ABOUT WHERE YOU GO AND HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THEIR JOB. TSA THAT IS.

Someone high up on TSA's food change recently (within the last 2-3 months) made some changes to the way TSO's deal with the traveling public at MPLS. When whoever mandated those changes first put them into place going through the gate screening was eerie - dead silence. A couple weeks later and the people were actually cheerful. Now the horseplay is returning along with the attitude of us (TSA) against them (flying public). It's not too bad right now, but I suspect that if something isn't done soon that it will return to being an unpleasant experience.

WHERE EXACTLY IS THIS AGAIN ?

Do you or any of your coworkers ever refer to passengers a civilians? If you do then you've set the tone of screening as confrontational (us against them). The traveling public picks up on attitudes like that one and they immediately go on the defense. My recent experiences at Schiphol tell me that security screening doesn't have to be confrontational to be effective.

NO WE DONT REFER TO THEM AS CIVILIANS BECAUSE TSA ISNT APART OF ANY MILITARY. WE ARE CIVILIANS AS WELL. MAYBE SOME PEOPLE ON THE TSA CHECKPOINT HAVE A HISTORY OF MILITARY BACKGROUND AND STILL HAVE THAT IN THEIR SYSTEM.

You have the option of calling a LEO over to shut down an irate screenee. What do we, the traveling public have as an option to shut down an abusive TSO? Complain? Good luck with that one since you protect your own against the public. That's been demonstrated in the news and on this blog. TSA answers to no one and that lack of accountability on the part of TSA to says much about their relationship with travelers.

TO BE HONEST SELDEM DO SCREENERS JUST UP AND HAVE ATTITUDES. ATLEAST WHERE I WORK. MOST OF THE TIME IF THE SCREENER IS IRATE ITS MORESO A REACTION TO THAT PASSENGER. SHUT DOWN AN IRATE SCREENER ??? NAME BADGE NUMBER NAME OF THE AIRPORT WHICH CHECKPOINT HE/SHE WORKS IN AND APPROXIMATE TIME THE INCIDENT HAPPENED AND YOU CAN GO TO KIP HAWLEY OR BOB ALLISON AND SAY THAT SCREENER HAS BEHAVIORAL PROBLEMS. UNDERSTAND THAT TSA DOES NOT BEGIN AND END AT THE CHECKPOINT. ALL THESE RULES START FROM HEADQUARTERS. SO YOU DONT HAVE TO JUST CALL FOR A SUPERVISOR...THERE IS A HIGHER CHAIN OF COMMAND. SUCH AS A MANAGER OR AN FSD AT THAT AIRPORT.

May 7, 2008 9:35 PM

Submitted by Anonymous on

Frustrated...
TSA needs to clarify the liquid rule so that there is a clearer understanding. My first time traveling since the heightened security was on May 8, 2008. I downloaded and read the rules regarding liquids from the airline, and TSA and there was not mention of body creams. I was allowed to board in San Diego with 2/4-oz containers with body cream, sunscreen, lotion, and 1 carry-on and a suitcase. On my return to San Diego from Houston, $45 worth of items were confiscated (1 additional body cream that I received as a gift for Mother's Day, and all of my creams from the flight in)-I was also now told that one of my bags had to be checked, all of this after going through security 3 times, I boarded the plane 5 minutes before departure.

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